PowerDVD 21 and Radeon RX 6800XT - black level elevated / limited range video

Bortmeister

Newbie Joined: Nov 29, 2021 15:15 Messages: 4 Offline

Solved by

Dec 06, 2021 12:52

When playing commercial Blu-rays using PowerDVD on my living room system the black levels are wrong - blacks are displayed as grey. It looks like the video stream is forced to limited range. However the display itself is not limited range, and if I use an alternative video player (e.g. the free Leawo one) the video is displayed correctly.

To complicate matters, this does appear to be the combination of PowerDVD and the Radeon GPU in the system. As I have another system available I can try the following combinations:

PowerDVD + Radeon 6800XT + Samsung Q9FN over HDMI = FAIL (limited range)
PowerDVD + Radeon 6800XT + Dell U2515 over Displayport = FAIL (limited range)
Leawo + Radeon 6800XT + Samsung Q9FN over HDMI = PASS (correct dynamic range)
PowerDVD + Nvidia 3060Ti + Samsung Q9FN over HDMI = PASS (correct dynamic range)

On the primary system, the display format is configured correctly to full range RGB 4:4:4 in the Radeon software. And to be clear, the competitor software works correctly - it is displaying what looks like the full dynamic range. It's not something to do with the HDMI connection either, as the same issue is there if I switch to a PC monitor.

If I didn't have another system to test with, I'd just conclude that PowerDVD does not work as expected at all - however, it does display the correct black levels when combined with an Nvidia GPU.

I hope that this makes sense - the specfic combination of PowerDVD 21 (latest 21.0.2019.62 version) and the Radeon GPU (running latest 21.12.1 driver) on Windows 10 Pro 21H1 - does not display the correct black levels.

Has anyone else been able to get correct dynamic range on one of the newer Radeon RX series cards with PowerDVD? Why would the horrible Leawo software not be affected?

(EDIT - TrueTheater video enhancements are disabled / Video playback settings in Radeon software is default)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 06. 2021 12:55

Bortmeister

Newbie Joined: Nov 29, 2021 15:15 Messages: 4 Offline

Dec 06, 2021 14:01

After some more testing I believe that this is a problem with the way the Radeon RX 6800 XT and it's hardware acceleration.

The reason the Leawo player seemed to be working correctly is that it was defaulting to software decoding. If I switch it to use DXVA then the playback shows the same limited dynamic range as PowerDVD.

I can find some references on the AMD forums to this type of black level problem with previous Radeon iterations and driver versions, but nothing recent. It may be a recurring problem with AMD hardware over the years.

Two questions:

Can anyone reproduce this issue with a Navi Radeon GPU and recent drivers?

Is there a way to force software decoding in PowerDVD? Unticking the 'use hardware decoding' box does not have this effect. The info screen in PowerDVD shows that it is still using DXVA for playback.

QC2.0

Senior Contributor Joined: Apr 27, 2016 04:02 Messages: 610 Offline

Dec 06, 2021 21:54

Quote After some more testing I believe that this is a problem with the way the Radeon RX 6800 XT and it's hardware acceleration.

The reason the Leawo player seemed to be working correctly is that it was defaulting to software decoding. If I switch it to use DXVA then the playback shows the same limited dynamic range as PowerDVD.

I can find some references on the AMD forums to this type of black level problem with previous Radeon iterations and driver versions, but nothing recent. It may be a recurring problem with AMD hardware over the years.

Two questions:

Can anyone reproduce this issue with a Navi Radeon GPU and recent drivers?

Is there a way to force software decoding in PowerDVD? Unticking the 'use hardware decoding' box does not have this effect. The info screen in PowerDVD shows that it is still using DXVA for playback.

Leawo uses DRM-cracking way to process the BD videos.
I think the result might not be identical to powerdvd even you successfully make the BD played under software decoding in powerdvd. The color range would still get affected by the GPU when output the video signal.

Contact AMD to let them investigate your concern would be a long shot but a proper way to make things right.

And, if the BD video is not originally encoded with x.v.color, the full range RGB presentation you saw could also be a fake one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 06. 2021 21:55

FarCry

Newbie Joined: Dec 05, 2021 18:01 Messages: 9 Offline

Dec 09, 2021 14:39

I have absolutely the same problem! Finally, someone in the same boat in a topic from 2021 and not 2010. =)
Now I know for sure, that the issue is not with my PC, but either at Cyberlink or AMD.

I already posted on the German forum

I contacted Cyberlink's support and got copy-pasted answer.

I filled in and sent the bug report in my Radeon driver.

This is inacceptable. The problem is either how PowerDVD handles DXVA, or how AMD programmed the video profiles.
The default profile in "Video" tab shouldn't affect the picture at all... but it does. The only way to partialy workaround the problem, is by choosing "Custom" profile and setting the brightness to -16%. But it makes all other videos too dark.

Disablling hardware acceleration in PowerDVD works only for single video files. As soon as you try to play a Blu-Ray, DXVA is forced back on and elevates black levels.

I would suggest to make pressure on Cyberlink. Write to their customer support. They should work together with AMD on a fix.

Greetings.

QC2.0

Senior Contributor Joined: Apr 27, 2016 04:02 Messages: 610 Offline

Dec 09, 2021 20:52

Quote I have absolutely the same problem! Finally, someone in the same boat in a topic from 2021 and not 2010. =)
Now I know for sure, that the issue is not with my PC, but either at Cyberlink or AMD.

I already posted on the German forum

I contacted Cyberlink's support and got copy-pasted answer.

I filled in and sent the bug report in my Radeon driver.

This is inacceptable. The problem is either how PowerDVD handles DXVA, or how AMD programmed the video profiles.
The default profile in "Video" tab shouldn't affect the picture at all... but it does. The only way to partialy workaround the problem, is by choosing "Custom" profile and setting the brightness to -16%. But it makes all other videos too dark.

Disablling hardware acceleration in PowerDVD works only for single video files. As soon as you try to play a Blu-Ray, DXVA is forced back on and elevates black levels.

I would suggest to make pressure on Cyberlink. Write to their customer support. They should work together with AMD on a fix.

Greetings.

DXVA is sort of GPU decoding. It's your freedom to call cyberlink be responsible, but it won't help your case at all.

BD video is DRM one and got played in its DRM-protected way not like normal and DRM-free video files.
How GPU itself and its driver process the DRM video should be the cause.
If you would really like to investigate and resolve the condition, you should consider they are completely different things in software perspective.

How about making pressure on AMD?
AMD can put no action to co-work with cyberlink because no their users complained to them directly.
An AMD GPU is much more expensive than a powerdvd license. You (and other AMD users) should have more power to make pressure on AMD to ask them to support more on the obsolete technology (blu-ray playback).

And, there is not only cyberlink making legit blu-ray player software.

The way you seduce users here to do is making the disc playback business go much worse.

I respect your right to say anything in this user community, but honestly speaking, I don't think your opinion would really help any users here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 09. 2021 20:52

FarCry

Newbie Joined: Dec 05, 2021 18:01 Messages: 9 Offline

Dec 10, 2021 04:10

I'm more than willing to help in this situation, but I'm not a beta-tester of their products. I paid for an expensive software, that works worse than almost every freeware. This is not the first release of PowerDVD. The company exists for almost 20 years now. This means, QA didn't make their job right.

The thing with DRM is not an excuse. It doesn't matter if you play a protected disk, a cracked copy or your own home made movie without protection. Results are the same. The decryption process only makes the files readable, the same way it's done in AnyDVD HD, but on a higher layer - so that it stays encrypted for the operating system.

I've done my part by reporting the issue to AMD and Cyberlink. If they ignore us - I still have 20 days to get a refund. It's that easy.

Bortmeister

Newbie Joined: Nov 29, 2021 15:15 Messages: 4 Offline

Dec 10, 2021 10:21

I agree that this appears to be a problem with the way the AMD Radeon handles DXVA and not Cyberlink specifically. However, I do feel that some acknowledgement from Cyberlink that they know it's an issue and they've notified and/or are working with AMD would be the right response in this forum. There are only a few companies manufacturing graphics cards so I do not believe that Cyberlink is not aware that there is an issue with Navi / Radeon Software currently.

I agree with FarCry that the point about the DRM is irrelevant (if QC2.0 is referring to AACS) - because this is happening with all content whether or not it's a commercial disc.

I believe it is Cyberlink's responsibility to offer software decoding option in their product, and I'm surprised this isn't possible. (If it is impossible to do this and comply with HDCP restrictions then I would at least like some confirmation from Cyberlink.)

I know that PC / software media playback is a niche thing now - but PowerDVD is a mature product and it's disappointing that after all these years, Blu-ray playback is such a faff to get right on PC.

Again, I realise that this issue seems to be an AMD driver problem, but as an individual I'm not going to realistically get heard by AMD - whereas a developer like Cyberlink should have at least some basic relationship with the main GPU manufacturers. (They implemented the apparently abandoned AMD Fluid Motion, for example.)

EDIT: For what it's worth I also posted on the AMD community forum here: https://community.amd.com/t5/graphics/video-playback-limited-dynamic-range-elevated-black-level-using/m-p/499945

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 10. 2021 10:22

Forum Moderator

Contributor Joined: Feb 27, 2018 01:01 Messages: 578 Offline

Dec 12, 2021 19:56

Quote (If it is impossible to do this and comply with HDCP restrictions then I would at least like some confirmation from Cyberlink.)

Hello,

This is a user led forum and CyberLink won't respond to your post here. Your best course of action is to contact them directly using the below link:

https://membership.cyberlink.com/support/customer-services.do

You can link back to this thread to provide them with the full details and conversation.

Cheers
PowerDVD Moderator

Bortmeister

Newbie Joined: Nov 29, 2021 15:15 Messages: 4 Offline

Dec 13, 2021 06:37

Quote

Hello,

This is a user led forum and CyberLink won't respond to your post here. Your best course of action is to contact them directly using the below link:

https://membership.cyberlink.com/support/customer-services.do

You can link back to this thread to provide them with the full details and conversation.

Cheers
PowerDVD Moderator

Okay - thank you. I have raised a ticket!

FarCry

Newbie Joined: Dec 05, 2021 18:01 Messages: 9 Offline

Dec 14, 2021 14:13

So, after the third message to Cyberlink's support we've got an answer. Looks like the only way to fix the problem is by terrorising AMD, until they release a new driver.

Thank you for writing back.
Regarding wrong black levels/brightness, when playing back Blu-Ray discs in PowerDVD 21 software.
For the video playback, PowerDVD would decode the video to a bitstream, it will not touch the color space's dynamic range that the video is encoded natively, and does not have the option to adjust the color space's dynamic range (16-235 or 0~255) for display when playing the video.
Technical-wise, the color space, and the dynamic range will be processed by the graphics processor and the display device you connected after PowerDVD playback decoding no matter whether the GPU decoding function (DxVA) is in use or not.
That is, if the dynamic range got changed on the display device, the color output dynamic range is mainly controlled by the GPU hardware, its driver, and the display device in the display processing chain. We are afraid this condition is NOT resolve-able by changing or updating the program codes of PowerDVD on the software side solely.
We suggest consulting the GPU manufacturer (AMD) for further technical support to investigate the concern why the dynamic range got changed after GPU decoding processing to display Blu-ray movies DRM video. It could be the most feasible solution for this color dynamic range change concern.
For the playback result that you mentioned in 3rd-party players software, as CyberLink is not the developer of the 3rd-party software, we do not have the access to the technical details of the color processing mechanism implemented in the 3rd-party software. We are afraid we might not be able to comment on the playback result delivered by the 3rd-party software.

There is only one workaround I found so far. (See screenshot) It makes the transition of black levels unnoticeable. But maybe at the cost of color accuracy. I think, that -16% corresponds to 16 shades, missing in the limited range. That would make sense.


Filename	Radeon Fix.jpg	Download
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Dec 14. 2021 15:00