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File size discrepancy: PD17 vs Windows 7 explorer
Mike1 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Jan 24, 2019 13:55 Messages: 3 Offline
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Hi,

I just started capturing old VHS tapes to my PC to eventually burn them to DVD. I have the following setup:


  • PD17

  • Diamond VC500 capture hardware with EZgrabber software.



My issue is this:

I capture a file using the supplied EZgrabber tool, Windows 7 explorer shows its file size as 3.8 gb. When I go to create a DVD using PD17, it shows that the file size is 5.6 gb.

Any idea why there is a discrepancy?


Any help would be appreciated - thanks in advance!

Mike
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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Hi Mike, welcome to the forum.
I see you are capturing VHS.
You have chosen a VC-500. That was a good choice.
First, I will attempt to answer your question.
You have captured tape at a certain format, resolution and bitrate. The file is what it is, and the MB in explorer are likely accurate.
Now you are setting yourself up to create a DVD and the size of the POTENTIAL file to be created is different.
Different formats and files, sources and destinations, all are different, much has to do with the actual playing time, and action and color of the file, different compression schemes, etc.

In current PD, capturing tape of all types, if going to DVD, always capture using a custom profile of MPEG2 at 10-12 MB/s and NTSC 720x480. If going directly to streaming, capture an H264 (yuck) also at 720x480. If intending to go to both distributions then capture both types, DVD is interlaced and streaming is progressive.

Premium results will depend on several factors...

If you have zero editing other than cuts, and the tapes are in good shape, and you have a decent VCR/tape player/camera, then you should be fine.

But...

If you need to do color corrections, white balance, lighting, stabilize, crop head switching noise at the bottom of the screen, mask edges, anything at all, you'll absolutely ruin your captures because they will have to be re-rendered and the multi-generational compression artifacts will get worse and worse. And what are you going to do about flagging and tearing?


Good-great quality captures start with a high-level s-vhs player with a TBC, using s-video cables, using a good USB dongle like the VC-500, and an additional line TBC prior to even getting to the computer.
Nearby electronics can fiddle the transfer, too. And don't EVER throw the tapes away.

Best, actually, to capture lossless HuffYUV if any restoration is needed, but PD can only edit it, not capture or produce to it.

Welcome to the rabbit hole. Any questions? I want to know exactly what equipment you have.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Jan 24. 2019 19:39

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
Tony Ish UK [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Dec 14, 2018 05:36 Messages: 32 Offline
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May not be a PD problem, If you web search Win10 incorrect folder sizes, there are a raft of complaints that the calculation of the contents is incorrectly calculated.

I don't know if Win 7 has passed this problem to Win 10 ;

I found this out on my PC when a folder read as 548mb. Looking at the folder in Treesize Pro, told me the folder was 3.45 gig !

Considering, I had over 500 photos in the folder, I suspect TPro was nearer the actual size.


A silent response from Msoft, I understand.

Rgds
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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Truth be told, PD has a spotty record regarding file sizes, at least in the realm of estimating the size of the proposed file.
For accuracy regarding file information get yourself a copy of Mediainfo. It’s free. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
Mike1 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Jan 24, 2019 13:55 Messages: 3 Offline
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Barry/Tony,

Thank you both for the quick responses. Being a newbie, I guess I'm a little confused regarding the "proposed" file PD will create and write to DVD. I transferred the VHS tape using EZgrabber using the "DVD" option for the output file format. As I mentioned earlier, this resulted in a 3.8 gb file. When creating the disk using this file, PD thinks it's a 5.6gb, thereby exceeding the capacity of the 4.7gb DVD.

So, I guess my questions are:

Does PD have to create additional files, etc. when it creates the DVD, thereby thinking it needs 5.6 gb to accomplish this?

Why wouldn't the file format (DVD) created by EZgrabber not be sufficient for PD to just add a menu and write it to the DVD, or am I (most likely) being naive?

The PD output options when creating the DVD are:

DVD Video
Regular Display (4:3)
MPEG2
HQ 720X480 (60i) 9.5mbps

FYI, the VHS tapes I am working with range in age from 25-35 years of age. A lot of them of them are suffering from loss of color and sharpness apparently due to age. Also, some are not original or first generation copies. I am not trying to edit (other than snip some things out of them) or enhance their quality - I'm just trying to save them before they disappear like Marty McFly tried to do in Back to the Future.

My hardware setup is nothing to write home about, but seems to run things adequately:

Magnavox VCR/DVD player (new from the box - my wife was smart enough to buy one years ago, "just in case"). It is not VHS-S or have an S-video output.

Diamond VC500 capture device

Acer Aspire XC-605 desktop computer (Intel i3-4160 CPU (3.6ghz)

4gb of RAM (planning to increase since I started this project)

Windows 7 Home premium (64bit)


Thanks again to both of you for responding!


BR,

Mike
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
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Thanks for posting the details. EZ Grabber mpg capture is about 6.5 Mbps. You can check this by viewing the file in Windows Properties/Details or in PD17/View Properties. PD17 Create disc setting that you inquire about, HQ 720 x 480/60i (9.5 Mbps) is producing at 9.5 Mbps as stated. You captured 3.8 GB. Therefore 9.5/6.5=1.46 x 3.8 GB = 5.55 GB estimated which is close to what you stated as 5.6 GB.

You need to select a video encoding quality of SP 352 x 480/60i (4.9 Mbps) and the estimated file size should be about 3.25 GB which will fit that 4.7 GB DVD. Be sure to select Dolby Digital 2 Channel for the audio.

Hope this helps...
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
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Quote
My hardware setup is nothing to write home about, but seems to run things adequately:
Magnavox VCR/DVD player (new from the box It is not VHS-S or have an S-video output.
...A lot of them of them are suffering from loss of color and sharpness apparently due to age.
Mike

Some problems may be from the VCR, sorry to say, especially apparently laying idle for so long. Gravity, dried rubber, leaky caps.
We are also spoiled by HD flat screens at 40-50-70 inches. VHS is doo-doo by today's standards.

Your tapes should be FF to the end and rewound (under watchful supervision) to the end a few times.
Keep other close by electronics off.
If the audio is crackly try another audio channel in the VCR menu.
Customize capture profile to bump up the bitrate to minimize compression artifacts.
Some tapes may display wiggles and flagging especially at the top.
A "cheap" substitute for a true TBC time base corrector to fix bends tearing and flagging is a Panasonic DMR-ES10 and ES15 DVD recorder. Use it as a pass-through, you MUST have the remote to turn off noise reduction (too strong) and adjust black and white level inputs. You won't regret it. It also has a very good habit of reducing VHS "dot crawl" from using RCA cables rather than s-video capture. A true TBC is $500-$1000 now. A Panasonic ES series is $100+-, much cheaper, and not too hard to find on Ebay (beware) or Mercari ( one now for $118, and it's the cream of the crop the ES-10.), or Facebook Marketplace, but you NEED the remote.

I have run amok of the original topic so I'll retreat to my den and speak no more...unless asked.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at Jan 25. 2019 21:25

Mike1 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Jan 24, 2019 13:55 Messages: 3 Offline
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Thanks to all who responded to my questions. I now understand the reason behind the file size discrepancy, and appreciate all the advice and tips with regard to transferring the VHS tapes and working with the resultant output file.

Best Regards,

Mike
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