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Unable to edit existing Motion Tracking on a clip?
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WeRunWithScissors2 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 07, 2018 01:03 Messages: 9 Offline
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I have been adding Motion Tracking to clips, sometimes with 7 or 8 different trackers on a clip as the items move in and out of view.

After I have finished in the Motion Tracker and click OK, if I go back into Motion Tracker fo the clip all of my trackers are gone ... it starts me back at "square one". If I click Cancel I can keep what was saved before, but I have found no way to edit the trackers I created.

Am I doing something wrong, or is there just no way to do additional Motion Tracker editing on a clip once I click OK?
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 2899 Offline
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Quote After I have finished in the Motion Tracker and click OK, if I go back into Motion Tracker fo the clip all of my trackers are gone ... it starts me back at "square one". If I click Cancel I can keep what was saved before, but I have found no way to edit the trackers I created.

Am I doing something wrong, or is there just no way to do additional Motion Tracker editing on a clip once I click OK?

You're not doing anything wrong, but you're missing a critical piece of the puzzle: The MT tool DOES NOT CHANGE the clip in any way! It simply ADDS a new keyframed clip of the tracked object on a track directly below the original clip, and unless you know to scroll down to see the lower tracks, you'll likely miss it.

The behavior you describe when trying to use the MT tool on the same clip again makes sense once you realize that it's giving you the opportunity to add ANOTHER tracked object. If you want to edit the existing tracked object, you'll need to do that in the PiP Designer and use the Keyframes button.
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WeRunWithScissors2 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 07, 2018 01:03 Messages: 9 Offline
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Quote

You're not doing anything wrong, but you're missing a critical piece of the puzzle: The MT tool DOES NOT CHANGE the clip in any way! It simply ADDS a new keyframed clip of the tracked object on a track directly below the original clip, and unless you know to scroll down to see the lower tracks, you'll likely miss it.

The behavior you describe when trying to use the MT tool on the same clip again makes sense once you realize that it's giving you the opportunity to add ANOTHER tracked object. If you want to edit the existing tracked object, you'll need to do that in the PiP Designer and use the Keyframes button.


I fully understand that the MT tool does not change the clip.

However, I am not finding anywhere in the Keyframe editor or the PiP Designer to edit the motion tracker I have already added to a clip if I realize there is something I need to change ... and the longer and more complex the clip the more I have to redo. It should be easy to bring back all of the same trackers in the same Motion Tracker tool and tweak them instead of having to redo all of them on a clip.

Again, if there is a way to show the existing motion trackers to edit them, please point out how to do this. I can't find it anywhere.

Thank you all in advance!
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 2899 Offline
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Ok, lets go back a couple of steps.

You stated that when you tried to edit one of your existing tracking objects by reopening the MT tool, all of your trackers are gone. When I reopen the MT tool, all my trackers are present and track as before, although the actual tracking objects (text, image or FX) are not shown. (see attached image)

Can you confirm that you see this same behavior, or post a screen capture and attach it using this button when you reply?


You also imply that you have to cancel to exit the MT tool in order to preserve your existing tracking objects, but I can click OK and my tracking objects remain (with no changes if I didn't make any when I reopned the MT tool). Can you please confirm that you see the same thing, or else describe what happens if you reopen the MT tool and hit OK without making any changes?

Please do this with a separate copy of your project. I don't want to do anything that might mess up your hard work!
[Thumb - MT2.jpg]
 Filename
MT2.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Reopened MT tool
 Filesize
119 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
7 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 23. 2018 00:27


youtube/optodata


Director Suite 365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16 thread i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | nVidia 419.67 | ASUS PRIME Z390-A | 6.2TB SSDs | 4TB HDD | 32GB RAM | (12GB RAMDrive)
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WeRunWithScissors2 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 07, 2018 01:03 Messages: 9 Offline
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Quote Ok, lets go back a couple of steps.

You stated that when you tried to edit one of your existing tracking objects by reopening the MT tool, all of your trackers are gone. When I reopen the MT tool, all my trackers are present and track as before, although the actual tracking objects (text, image or FX) are not shown. (see attached image)

Can you confirm that you see this same behavior, or post a screen capture and attach it using this button when you reply?


You also imply that you have to cancel to exit the MT tool in order to preserve your existing tracking objects, but I can click OK and my tracking objects remain (with no changes if I didn't make any when I reopned the MT tool). Can you please confirm that you see the same thing, or else describe what happens if you reopen the MT tool and hit OK without making any changes?

Please do this with a separate copy of your project. I don't want to do anything that might mess up your hard work!


Ok, I figured out what causes the problem...

If you take the sample clip "Skateboard.mp4" and add it to a blank project and add a motion tracker (or multiples) it works as expected when you select the clip and choose "Motion Tracker" again to edit it.

HOWEVER...

If I add that same clip to the timeline again, even giving it a new alias, and I try to add or edit the motion trackers on two instances of the same clip, that screws editing up.

Apparently the Motion Tracker stores or loads the motion data and trackers PER MEDIA CLIP, and not per instance or alias in the timeline.

So I was having massive problems because I had a single clip that I had trimmed into 10 different virtual clips and was trying to add Motion Trackers to each virtual clip and this made the Motion Tracker module very confused.

Unfortunately I also tried using "Precut..." with Multi Trim and it let me create motion trackers on each segment/clip but when I tried to go edit any of the ones I created the Motion Tracker window showed an empty tracker list.

I will send this finding in via the File / Rate Us & Provide Suggestions in the app.

Does anyone know of a way around this? Is there a way to use "Precut..." with Multi Trim and select all the segments created and save each into a new separate video file?
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 2899 Offline
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I'll test out your findings later, but in the meantime you can use Produce Range to produce each clip to a stand alone clip.

Search the forum or watch a tutorial if you need info on how to use that, and you'll also want to use SVRT if possible when producing to keep the original quality. Otherwise, use the Profile Analyzer to help determine the best producing format.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 25. 2018 17:41


youtube/optodata


Director Suite 365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16 thread i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | nVidia 419.67 | ASUS PRIME Z390-A | 6.2TB SSDs | 4TB HDD | 32GB RAM | (12GB RAMDrive)
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PowerDirector Moderator
Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 596 Offline
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WeRunWithScissors2,

We have confirmed there is definitely an issue here. Can you please submit a support ticket to CyberLink Technical Support here:

https://membership.cyberlink.com/support/service/technical-support.do

Best way to explain the issue is adding motion tracking on two segments from a precut video. Once submitted, respond with your support ticket number and we will help to pass it on directly for further investigation.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


For customer support related issues, please contact:
- Customer service: https://membership.cyberlink.com/support/customer-services.do
- Technical support: https://membership.cyberlink.com/support/service/technical-support.do
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WeRunWithScissors2 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 07, 2018 01:03 Messages: 9 Offline
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Quote WeRunWithScissors2,

We have confirmed there is definitely an issue here. Can you please submit a support ticket to CyberLink Technical Support here:

https://membership.cyberlink.com/support/service/technical-support.do

Best way to explain the issue is adding motion tracking on two segments from a precut video. Once submitted, respond with your support ticket number and we will help to pass it on directly for further investigation.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


Here is the ticket number I had already opened, but I added a video to illustrate the exact sequence to reproduce.
CS001971774

Thanks!
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 2899 Offline
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Nice work on figuring this out and for documenting your findings for tech support to address. Thank you WeRunWithScissors2!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 27. 2018 00:28


youtube/optodata


Director Suite 365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16 thread i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | nVidia 419.67 | ASUS PRIME Z390-A | 6.2TB SSDs | 4TB HDD | 32GB RAM | (12GB RAMDrive)
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WeRunWithScissors2 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 07, 2018 01:03 Messages: 9 Offline
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Quote I'll test out your findings later, but in the meantime you can use Produce Range to produce each clip to a stand alone clip.

Search the forum or watch a tutorial if you need info on how to use that, and you'll also want to use SVRT if possible when producing to keep the original quality. Otherwise, use the Profile Analyzer to help determine the best producing format.


Thank you for the info on "Produce Range", as well as using SVRT. Although it is pain to potentially have to produce each range separately into new clips, or add lots of trackers for different scenes in one big clip, it is at least a kind of workaround. I'll mark this as an answer for now until the bug is fixed in the Motion Tracker plugin.

Thanks!
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 2899 Offline
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I'm afraid there is much more going on here that is really problematic. Hopefully the Cyberlink team is making progress on this issue, and I'd like to share this video that shows how wide ranging and serious the motion tracking issue is.

We are actually talking about chasing ghosts and zombies here, because the trackers follow the clip EVERYWHERE (even to completely unrelated projects and after rebooting or even powering off the PC, and even when you don't ever save the tracking project)! In addition, they cannot be disabled in the MT Tool surprised



To do the above test, use a clip that you have never worked with before. You can download and use my renamed skateboard clip (here) or simply rename any clip on your system and follow the steps in the video.

Maybe the ghost/zombie trackers are actually vampires, because the only way to actually kill them is to drive a stake through their dark hearts by deleting them in the MT tool - but that will also delete them in every other project you've tracked that clip (although I think the actual tracked objects and their keyframes on the lower tracks wouldn't be affected).
youtube/optodata


Director Suite 365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16 thread i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | nVidia 419.67 | ASUS PRIME Z390-A | 6.2TB SSDs | 4TB HDD | 32GB RAM | (12GB RAMDrive)
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WeRunWithScissors2 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 07, 2018 01:03 Messages: 9 Offline
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For future people wondering what the heck is going on with Motion Tracker in PowerDirector 17, all of the information above is still accurate, and I have a support case open: CS001971774

Today, 10-Jan-2019 they responded to my request to keep the ticket open until it is fixed with this:
Hi Customer,

Thank you for your reply.

With reference to your query, after further checking by the product development team, to modify the current software behavior would be a high-risk modification and might affect the stability of the software. The modification would not be expected to be implemented in a short time but we will modify the Motion Tracker feature behavior to a more reliable way in the future software version.

You may consider creating all the object tracking tracks of the video in one time then trim the video rather than creating one object tracking then trim then create another tracker then trim again.

Another workaround solution is that you can also copy the source video and rename it as a different source video. By this way, PowerDirector will recognize the 2 videos are different source videos so the different motion tracker object can be created for separate source video with the same contents.


My reply:
Thank you for your information on the long-term nature of the solution.

The limitation of using Motion Tracker on one physical file at a time is highly disappointing and restrictive, especially when using 4K video and my video clips are 4GB each, and I am sure other users have clips that are 10 to 100GB each if their video device does not split them up. The suggested workaround of making multiple copies of the video files JUST to use Motion Tracker properly is NOT going to be feasible for many of us.

The other suggested workaround of "creating all the object tracking tracks of the video in one time then trim the video rather than creating one object tracking then trim then create another tracker then trim again" sounds great in theory, but in practice it is VERY hard to get all scenes tracked correctly in one shot and not have to go back in and tweak things. This is not really viable either.

Please consider increasing the development priority of this important feature of PowerDirector because of the problem of real-world workarounds and the fact that in the user forums we have confirmed now that this applies to these use cases of editing Motion Tracker data:

  1. A file is imported to a project timeline once and trimmed/split into multiple clips/aliases in the same project (and you edit Motion Tracker data on the multiple clips/aliases)

  2. A file is imported to a project timeline multiple times and each clip is cropped down to different parts of the video in the same project (and you edit Motion Tracker data on the multiple clips/aliases)

  3. A file is "Precut" into multiple virtual clips (and you edit Motion Tracker data on the multiple precut clips)

  4. A file is used in Project A and Motion Tracker is added on the file. The same file is used in Project B and Motion Tracker is added on the file. (Motion Tracker data is saved against the file on disk, regardless of the Project)



I am afraid that this is something significant enough that it could drive users away that rely on this functionality. It seems to be used more and more in videos I see online. I hope I am able to hold on until it is fixed...
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The translation from CS speak is that it is too big a fix to fix quickly and too risky to fix in PowerDirector 17, so they will fix for the next version (most likely). All my years working in software development related jobs I see this quite often and it makes sense.

I understand it is important to you, but this feature has been in the last 3 or 4 versions of PowerDirector and you are the first to find this bug (I think). So I am sure that would lower the priority as well.

Dave
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WeRunWithScissors2 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 07, 2018 01:03 Messages: 9 Offline
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Being a software developer myself for the past 27 years I fully understand the various ways bug fixes get prioritized, and that is fine.

I am going to also investigate a different workaround. I am going to try doing all of my other editing first and rendering to a single large file. Then I will do all of my motion tracking on the one large file to avoid dealing with clips at all. I'll let people know how it works out.

To avoid adding another topic, does anyone know if there is an intermediate codec that I could render to in PD17 that is near lossless, similar to Apple ProRes 422 or DNxHD/R, or even a constant quality codec like Cineform?
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 2899 Offline
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Quote I am going to also investigate a different workaround. I am going to try doing all of my other editing first and rendering to a single large file. Then I will do all of my motion tracking on the one large file to avoid dealing with clips at all. I'll let people know how it works out.

To avoid adding another topic, does anyone know if there is an intermediate codec that I could render to in PD17 that is near lossless, similar to Apple ProRes 422 or DNxHD/R, or even a constant quality codec like Cineform?

The simple answer is no, not from within PD. The ones shown on the Produce page are the only output formats available.

You can convert your clips using a 3rd party tool to a fast, lossless format like MagicYUV and PD can import and work with them, but you can't produce to that format after editing.

In my opinion, the best way to accomplish you goal is to use Profile Analyzer and choose the best quality profile available for all your intermediate clips.

When you pull them all together to do your motion tracking, you'd then want to use SVRT to essentially copy all of the unchanged sections to the output video. That way, they're identical to the originally-produced versions and won't get processed a second time.

SVRT will also use the CPU for rendering the motion-tracked sections, which will give you the highest quality.
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