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Powerdirector 14 gpu woes
Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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Hey everyone, new guy here. I have been using PD14 for a while now for 1080 files but recently purchaed a drone that I film in 2.7k. I also built a new to me desktop with a dedicated gpu thinking this would help me as my laptop didn't have a gpu. My current settings are shadow files off, real time preview with high resolution. The weird part is when I use the cam app to monitor my system while editing, 1080 footage works with the gpu, the 2.7k footage does not. 1080 footage uses 20% cpu and 20% gpu while the 2.7 footage uses 50% cpu and 5% gpu. Is this normal? I would think that 2.7k footage would use the same relative percentage of cpu/gpu as 1080, just higher. Then hopefully it wouldn't be so choppy.

I have tried this work around and it didn't help one bit. I have seen the magic+pd solution, but really don't want to add another step. Should I just wait for PD15 to come out and hope it fixes some of the issues with the gpu? Does powerdirector even use the gpu like it should? I get conflicting answers when I look it up on the forums here. What does powerdirector use the gpu for?

My system is older but I thought it would have a fighting chance at video editing. It has a core i5-2400, gtx 650ti with 4 gb ram, windows 10 home. The thing is, it nevers gets bogged down. i haven't seen it over 50% on anything. Even my laptop with a 4th gen core i7 with no graphics card at all hit 100% while editing 1080.

So, I don't know what to do. Is there some settings to change, wait for PD15 or just jump into magic+pd?

Thanks in advance for your help. -Jason
Ray Mc [Avatar]
Member Joined: Dec 23, 2014 19:01 Messages: 61 Offline
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Yes and no and I am confused as you are at times... I will give it a go and hopefully someone with more expierience will verify.. and or correct my understanding.



The gpu does the rendering of files. It also helps with the timeline and library playback..

I replaced a very old gpu with a 970 only to find it is a bastard card. I do get better playback but not nearly as good as I expected. Going for a 1060 in a bit. cost effective at this point and even if I don't get help in the edit and or playback side I am processing/rendering a lot and on the verge of wanting to go 4k.



The CPU handles the effects and transitions..

Only done some light titles and transitions so haven't put a strain on the I7 5930 CPU I am running.

Lastly Magic has shown promise and 4k files tested ran smooth. Don't know if a processed 2k file can work on the timeline with regular hd as shadow files are not used on the AVI files Magic creates. You would need to process all the files. The big downside is file size is multiplied by TEN.



Good Luck
Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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Quote: Lastly Magic has shown promise and 4k files tested ran smooth. Don't know if a processed 2k file can work on the timeline with regular hd as shadow files are not used on the AVI files Magic creates. You would need to process all the files. The big downside is file size is multiplied by TEN.

Good Luck


I forgot about the 10X file size issue. I definitely can't do that then. I guess shadow files are my best bet then. I will read up on shadow files to make sure I understand them.

Thanks for the help. -Jason
Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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So, with a little more searching I have found that no matter what video editor you use, the higher the resolution, the more stuttering you get. The answer is to change the codec to cineform or equivalent. File sizes will be bigger, but editor will be happier. Is this what magic+pd does? or is cineform better?
I just ordered 2 wd red 4 tb drives to add to my desktop. I will have them setup in windows storage spaces in a 2 way mirror for redunancy. I should be able to edit til my hearts content then.
Thanks for the help. -Jason
PepsiMan
Senior Contributor Location: Clarksville, TN Joined: Dec 29, 2010 01:20 Messages: 1054 Offline
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welcome to the forum.

see this 4K video editing -> http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49413.page#259885

similar to what Ken480 is doing, i use 1080 FHD 17- 24Mb/sec downscaled 4K videos of the master.

substitution method works very well.

Eugen157 explains how to use Shadow Files to ease the pain. similar but PD is converting it.

in my experience PD struggles with 1080, 2.5k, & 4K videos with higher than 50Mb/sec bitrates.

with PD, i couldn't edit 200 - 300Mb/sec bitrates...

for me preplanning the video edits then convert'em before going to bed is key to using PD sucessfully.



happy happy joy joy

PepsiMan

'garbage in garbage out'

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 02. 2016 00:37

'no bridge too far'

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Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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Quote: welcome to the forum.

see this 4K video editing -> http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49413.page#259885

similar to what Ken480 is doing, i use 1080 FHD 17- 24Mb/sec downscaled 4K videos of the master.

substitution method works very well.

Eugen157 explains how to use Shadow Files to ease the pain. similar but PD is converting it.

in my experience PD struggles with 1080, 2.5k, & 4K videos with higher than 50Mb/sec bitrates.

with PD, i couldn't edit 200 - 300Mb/sec bitrates...

for me preplanning the video edits then convert'em before going to bed is key to using PD sucessfully.



happy happy joy joy

PepsiMan

'garbage in garbage out'




Thank you -Jason
Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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So, the cineform idea didn't work well for me. The new hard drives work great though. I bought 2 4tb western digital red drives and installed them into my desktop via windows storage spaces in a 2 way mirror. It works great. Eventually I will get an ssd drive for my boot/applications drive which will speed things up.
To get over the laggy preview problem, I just use shadow files. I start them before I go to bed and when I get up in the morning they are all created. I guess thats the easiest way. Thanks for everyones help. -Jason
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gtx 650ti doesn't do any resolution over 1080p, that's the main problem.
GTX960 is what you need for 4K. Not 970, not 980...
Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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Quote: gtx 650ti doesn't do any resolution over 1080p, that's the main problem.
GTX960 is what you need for 4K. Not 970, not 980...


Well, that's not in the cards for a while. I'm only going upto 2.7k right now any way. Thanks for the heads up though. -Jason
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What is that "2.7K"? 2160p is called commercially "4K" (because it has 4000 horizontal pixels or because it has 4x more pixels than HD or just for marketing reasons):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

Anyway anything over 1920x1080p is more than what that Kepler generation card can process in hardware. Maxwell 2 and newer (like the GTX 960 or GTX950) can go up to 4K (means also anything in between).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 13. 2016 06:28

Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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Quote: What is that "2.7K"? 2160p is called commercially "4K" (because it has 4000 horizontal pixels or because it has 4x more pixels than HD or just for marketing reasons):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

Anyway anything over 1920x1080p is more than what that Kepler generation card can process in hardware. Maxwell 2 and newer (like the GTX 960 or GTX950) can go up to 4K (means also anything in between).


I get what your saying, but 2.7k and 4k are different. 2.7k is 2716x1524. 4k is 3840x2160. -Jason
Ray Mc [Avatar]
Member Joined: Dec 23, 2014 19:01 Messages: 61 Offline
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(2.7k - 2716x1524) is still larger than 1920 x 1080 and according to the previous post should not process..... Do I have this right?
Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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Quote: (2.7k - 2716x1524) is still larger than 1920 x 1080 and according to the previous post should not process..... Do I have this right?


It will process, just takes a while and you have to use shadow files. I don't know about 4k though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 13. 2016 13:20

-Jason
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It will process, but not using the GPU fully because it doesn't have the proper encoder, just the decoder.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 13. 2016 13:20

JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
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Jab73180, since your OP was about timeline playback fluidity and GPU actual load with 2.7K footage vs 1080, a my experience would indicate a GTX960, 970, 980 will make no difference there vs the 650ti.

For 2.7K or 4K, H.264 or H.265 footage, PD14 did not utilize the GPU for timeline decode playback as near as I could resolve, even if decoding of these formats was supported via GPU capability. Yes the GTX960 has better decode ability relative to 970 or 980 but only applicable for codes that take advantage of it, PD14 was not one as near as I could tell. This was clearly shown here http://forum.cyberlink.com//forum/posts/list/25/45503.page#236759 some time ago as well as other posts.

The issue reported there has been addressed in PD15 (a few supported cards tested to date, 960 and 1070) and also covered in the PD15 spec with “nVidia, Intel & AMD H.265 (HEVC) Hardware Decoding ENHANCED”. http://www.cyberlink.com/products/director-suite/compare-versions_en_US.html I guess maybe enhanced means that decoding now works as previously advertised.

Your option of simply letting the shadow files generate and then continue editing with the lower resolution timeline for fluid playback is one of many approaches and works effectively.

Jeff
Jab73180 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 09, 2016 20:22 Messages: 40 Offline
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Quote: Jab73180, since your OP was about timeline playback fluidity and GPU actual load with 2.7K footage vs 1080, a my experience would indicate a GTX960, 970, 980 will make no difference there vs the 650ti.

For 2.7K or 4K, H.264 or H.265 footage, PD14 did not utilize the GPU for timeline decode playback as near as I could resolve, even if decoding of these formats was supported via GPU capability. Yes the GTX960 has better decode ability relative to 970 or 980 but only applicable for codes that take advantage of it, PD14 was not one as near as I could tell. This was clearly shown here http://forum.cyberlink.com//forum/posts/list/25/45503.page#236759 some time ago as well as other posts.

The issue reported there has been addressed in PD15 (a few supported cards tested to date, 960 and 1070) and also covered in the PD15 spec with “nVidia, Intel & AMD H.265 (HEVC) Hardware Decoding ENHANCED”. http://www.cyberlink.com/products/director-suite/compare-versions_en_US.html I guess maybe enhanced means that decoding now works as previously advertised.

Your option of simply letting the shadow files generate and then continue editing with the lower resolution timeline for fluid playback is one of many approaches and works effectively.

Jeff




Thanks for the reply. -Jason
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline
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Quote:
The issue reported there has been addressed in PD15 (a few supported cards tested to date, 960 and 1070) and also covered in the PD15 spec with “nVidia, Intel & AMD H.265 (HEVC) Hardware Decoding ENHANCED”. http://www.cyberlink.com/products/director-suite/compare-versions_en_US.html I guess maybe enhanced means that decoding now works as previously advertised.

I guess I need to provide a partial extraction, timeline decoding works in PD15 as long as one only has video content and does not traverse a added transition, possibly other trigger shortfalls too. http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49689.page#261430

Jeff
Fleetwing1627 [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:24 Messages: 5 Offline
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Quote: Your option of simply letting the shadow files generate and then continue editing with the lower resolution timeline for fluid playback is one of many approaches and works effectively.


How long does that take? For example, today I was editing using a 33GB Sony XAVC-S file (1080/24P/50mbps) that was 90 minutes long. I know that's a big file, but since it's always on a SSD, really, why should PD14 become so slow and unresponsive just because it's an XAVC-S file? I imagine it would be a while to wait for the shadow files to be generated for a 33GB file.

Since PD15 doesn't appear to offer any improvement in this area I'm seriously thinking about upgrading to Sony Vegas instead.
AlS
Senior Member Location: South Africa Joined: Sep 23, 2014 18:07 Messages: 290 Offline
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Quote: So, the cineform idea didn't work well for me. The new hard drives work great though. I bought 2 4tb western digital red drives and installed them into my desktop via windows storage spaces in a 2 way mirror. It works great. Eventually I will get an ssd drive for my boot/applications drive which will speed things up.
To get over the laggy preview problem, I just use shadow files. I start them before I go to bed and when I get up in the morning they are all created. I guess thats the easiest way. Thanks for everyones help.


Just a thought. You shouldn't have a space problem with your additional drives. I'm editing 4k with a core i5 and Magic+PD. It's an additional step but runs smoothly. Maybe give it a try - could be a minor inconvience compared to a new PC and Vegas cost. Not sure Vegas will be much better with your hardware. If you test it please let us know results.

Al

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 14. 2016 10:10

Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer
AlS
Senior Member Location: South Africa Joined: Sep 23, 2014 18:07 Messages: 290 Offline
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Jeff - You have put enough time and effort into testing and resolving issues with GPUs to publish a thesis - and we appreciate it.
Based on what you've found what hardware would you recommend for 4k editing in PD? Is there any performance improvement for 4k in PDR15 to justify the upgrade?
Thanks,
Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer
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