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Fade Transition not working correctly
JohntheAussie [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Australia, SA Joined: Jun 02, 2011 20:17 Messages: 23 Offline
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I have had this problem with Fade Transitions on PD9, 12 and now on PD14 Ultimate. I do at least 2 projects each year with multiple cameras, and when PD12 was released with MultiCam Editing this made editing much easier. After I edit with the Multicam module I use the Fade Transition during musical numbers to fade between cameras. While this works by fading out one camera while fading in another it has always looked terrible. I have now analysed the fade frame by frame (which I should have done years ago), and it seems that during the first half, the camera video its fading To is frozen till the halfway mark. Then after the halfway mark the camera video its fading From is frozen will the end of that fade. No wonder it looks bad. It also did that on PD12 and I think also on PD9.

I had the latest Nvidia driver downloaded from the Nvidia site. In Preferences - Hardware Acceleration I had 'Enable Hardware Coding' ticked (but not OpenCL as I have a Nvidia card). I tried unticking it and it was the same. I believe my hardware should be up to the task.

The project was using 2 HD video camera recordings.

(Edited to show my specs in my signature below)

Any suggestions?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 29. 2016 01:30

PD14 Ultimate
Win 10 64bit, Intel Core i5 - 2400, 16Gb RAM, Nvidia Geforce GT 430, 240Gb SSD
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
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Your nVidia card is not good. See this benchmark comparison: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GT+430 . Hardware encoding doesn't work except with old drivers. Your cpu can render faster than using HA with this card. Uncheck Enable Hardware Decoding and you should see better results.
JohntheAussie [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Australia, SA Joined: Jun 02, 2011 20:17 Messages: 23 Offline
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Thank you for your reply. As I mentioned above I unchecked Hardware Decoding but did not fix my problem, also the program seemed to run more sluggishly.

You mention 'Hardware encoding doesn't work except with old drivers'. This is confirmed by [url=http://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdirector-ultra/spec_en_AU.html?&r=1]http://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdirector-ultra/spec_en_AU.html?&r=1
[/url]which says
NVIDIA:
GeForce 8500GT/9800GT and above
GeForce GT/GTS/GTX 200/400/500/600/700/800/900 Series
PLEASE NOTE: For users of NVIDIA cards using pre-Kepler architecture who have updated to graphics driver 340.43 or later, the CUDA video hardware video encoder feature in PowerDirector is no longer available. To re-enable hardware acceleration, please download and install an earlier driver.(with link).

How very annoying of Nvidia to disable the CUDA video hardware encoder in their later drivers. Sounds like sloppy programming to me. Maybe I should have gone with AMD video instead.

Anyway I will try an earlier driver to see if this fixes it. PD14 Ultimate
Win 10 64bit, Intel Core i5 - 2400, 16Gb RAM, Nvidia Geforce GT 430, 240Gb SSD
JohntheAussie [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Australia, SA Joined: Jun 02, 2011 20:17 Messages: 23 Offline
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I downloaded the older Nvidia driver, uninstalled the current driver etc and installed the new driver.
Tried PD14 again and while general editing was much smoother (indicating that CUDA was probably working) it did not fix my Fade Transition.

However I looked further into the Fade Transition. I am using a Cross fade (sorry, forgot to mention that) rather than an Overlap fade as I found Overlap was putting the audio out of synch, and for these projects the audio is recorded separately (I dont use audio from the cameras as the main audio). It now looks like the Cross fade is probably working like it is defined to, and I need to change to Overlap, but to find get the audio to synchronise. Synchronising with the audio if using Cross fade was a problem in a previous version of PD for me, so I need to try it again in PD14. I will try that and report back later.

Later:- tried Overlap Fade but that changed the length and therefore it became out of synch with the audio. I will continue to search in other forum threads for any clues.
Like someone else in another thread I am sure that Adobe Premiere Elements about 10 years ago did not have an issue with this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 26. 2016 06:16

PD14 Ultimate
Win 10 64bit, Intel Core i5 - 2400, 16Gb RAM, Nvidia Geforce GT 430, 240Gb SSD
Kyle 40
Contributor Location: Cumbria Joined: Sep 06, 2013 14:14 Messages: 467 Offline
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Hi John, I sometimes have an issue with a fade behaving badley, not sure why. However, please give this method a try.

You need to use at least 2 video tracks for this to work. Keeping in mind that PowerDirector always look at your video from the bottom up, i.e.video Track 2 has priority over video Track 1!

With that in mind, put your first video clip onto ideo track 2, then the next clip onto video track 1. You will need to make sure that there are enough overlap of moving picture, between the two video tracks for the transition to work.

Next, place the fade of choice on track 2 ONLY, continue this edit style for the rest of your video and you should find the transitions working smoothly. It is a recknised form of editing called A + B Roll editing used quite a lot in the "old" days of film editing.

Cheers I just want to edit and make pictures, walk my dog and go fishing.
JohntheAussie [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Australia, SA Joined: Jun 02, 2011 20:17 Messages: 23 Offline
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Thanks Kyle. However I have edited with the very useful Multicam Designer plugin, and this results in hundreds of clip transitions on the one video track, so I cannot see how I can use your method. Even if I could move every second clip to another video track and then do what you said, it sounds like it might work OK for a few transitions, but not when you have hundreds. PD14 Ultimate
Win 10 64bit, Intel Core i5 - 2400, 16Gb RAM, Nvidia Geforce GT 430, 240Gb SSD
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
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Hello, John!

I just had a thought. You say you don't use the audio from the camera's microphone, but from (obviously) a second device, and sync the audio and video together with some type of cue(clap of a hand, or whichever method). Before editing your clips, produce a raw version with just the video and audio synchronised together. This clip will be the version used for editing later. If you've done more than one clip, with its own separately-recorded audio, this first clip will be your "template" for what to do with your other clips.(just by way of interest, what are you using to record the audio?) If you have shot (for example) 10 minutes of video, and recorded 10 minutes of audio to correspond, link the two together using your audio and video cue, then produce(render) that clip. That rendered clip will become your raw version. You can then edit it any which-way you like without losing the synchronising of the audio. By the way, did you know the "clapper-board" used in film to sync picture and sound was an Australian invention? Australia's film industry in the 1930s and 1940s came up with its own method of getting sound onto film quite independent of, and with no help from the Americans. The clapper-board, adopted by America(but without any due credit to Australia for its invention, until many years later) was used here first, to help with picture and sound synchronisation. Just thought I'd throw that tit-bit of trivia into the mix.

Cheers!

Neil.
JohntheAussie [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Australia, SA Joined: Jun 02, 2011 20:17 Messages: 23 Offline
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Thanks Neil for your reply.

To record the audio I usually get a feed from the sound desk into a computer and use Audacity. Then output the sound file in wav format.

I knew that the clapper board was used for synchronising the video and sound, but did not know it was an Australian invention, so thanks for that. That has just prompted me to update my profile to show my Aussie status, after I noticed you are a fellow Aussie. (Hope you had a great Australia Day yesterday).

So are you saying that if I synchronise the sound with the video and do a mix in Multicam Designer with the multiple cameras, (which gives a single video channel with the audio), then before I do any transitions I produce (render) this to a file, I can then feed this back into PD and then use transitions (such as overlap) without losing synchronisation with the audio? PD14 Ultimate
Win 10 64bit, Intel Core i5 - 2400, 16Gb RAM, Nvidia Geforce GT 430, 240Gb SSD
Kyle 40
Contributor Location: Cumbria Joined: Sep 06, 2013 14:14 Messages: 467 Offline
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Hi John. Apologies’, I must admit that I skip read your original posting, only seeing the Fade/Transitions mentioned and not MultiCam Designer. My excuse is that Multi Cam Designer doesn't yet offer any transition than straight cuts embarassed.

Another apology... I'm sorry, I'm going to ask so many questions!

Is this unwanted effect happening on every transition ? After you've used Multi Cam designer and your new video is placed in the PD14 time line, do you then perform your transitions or do you first produce a video and work from?

I do at time use 3 cameras and use the audio off just one of those cameras. MultiCam Designer is great for switching the audio source if there are any problems. I've found that after using MultiCam, the new video is automatically place in the timeline and I'm able to adjust the duration of the edit OR place an effect with out any freeze framing issues except where the original source video was at an end!

It really sounds as if PD is producing a freeze frame just to give you enough video to enable you to create a transition. Which leads me to ask another question.... is there definitely enough moving picture available at the point where you are making a transition?

Please could you try this? Start a new sequence, add a few shots to your time, line then add a transition to a shots making sure you have enough video available on the heads and tails. Do you see the same unwanted freeze frame effect? It maybe something to do with MultiCam Designer !!!

I still prefer to add the effects to the edits myself, it's just something I was trained to do and now do it with think about!

One last question.... are the freeze frames happening while you play the PD timeline and in the Final produced video? Sometimes the PC doesn't have enough processing power to produce a smooth timeline while viewing the timeline at a High Preview quality. I have to run my in Turbo mode!



I must admit that I never knew that historical fact about clapper boards, having used them long enough!

Learn somethine everyday, don't know how much I've forgotteninnocent

Cheers I just want to edit and make pictures, walk my dog and go fishing.
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
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Hi, Kyle & John!

Tell me if you've seen this one. If I add a simple fade, or a wipe, or a threshold using crossfade behaviour, I get a momentary freeze-frame at the beginning and sometimes at the end of the transition as well. But if I set at overlap, I get a smooth transition. Only trouble with overlap is, it shortens the overall length of the video by the duration of the transition multiplied by the number of times the transition is used(10 transitions at 5 seconds each equals 50 seconds snipped off your video's length).

Cheers!

Neil.
jcardana
Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline
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I'm putting my comment back in...



It sound like the fade is in "Cross" mode and not "Overlap".

When I read you first post, this is what I wrote. Then I thought you were talking about being in Multicam editing. So I deleted my post. But there are no transitions in Multicam (Since I don't use it I didn't know). But, again, since your complaint is about a transition, I figure you have to be back in the Full Editor. So my comment stands. Whew, sorry about that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 27. 2016 12:24

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My Video Editing Computer
| My DirectX Diagnostics


PowerDirector 15.0.2820.0 | PhotoDirector 7.0.7504.0 | AudioDirector 6.0.5902.0 | ColorDirector 4.0.4627.0 | Power2Go 9.0.2602.0


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JohntheAussie [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Australia, SA Joined: Jun 02, 2011 20:17 Messages: 23 Offline
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Three replies, thank you so much guys.

I'll reply in reverse order

Jcardana,
Yes, my problem is when I use a fade in 'Cross' mode and not 'Overlap' when in the Full Editor after I have done my simple editing in Multicam.

Neil,
When Using the Cross Fade in the Full Editor (after using Multicam to do my simple editing with multiple cameras) I get the freeze frame at the beginning and the end always. When I set it to overlap I get a smooth transition and like you I have found it shortens the length of the video and therefore throws out the synchronisation with the audio.

Kyle,
In answer to 'Is this unwanted effect happening on every transition ?' Yes, when set to Cross fade and not Overlap.

In answer to 'After you've used Multi Cam designer and your new video is placed in the PD14 time line, do you then perform your transitions or do you first produce a video and work from?' After Multicam editing I do not produce a video to work from, I just perform my transitions. I think Neil was suggesting earlier to try producing it first and then perform the transitions, as a workaround. Would this work? I have not tried it yet.

In answer to 'is there definitely enough moving picture available at the point where you are making a transition? ' I think so, I dont understand why not. If I change to an overlap it works smoothly, no freezing, but then as I mentioned earlier it shortens the video and it is no longer synchronised with the audio.

For 'Please could you try this? Start a new sequence, add a few shots to your time, line then add a transition to a shots making sure you have enough video available on the heads and tails. Do you see the same unwanted freeze frame effect? It maybe something to do with MultiCam Designer !!! ' I will try this later, and report back here.

In answer to 'are the freeze frames happening while you play the PD timeline and in the Final produced video? ' Yes in both. It is noticed visually in both, and if in the PD timeline I move frame by from through the fade the freeze frames are there every time.

Kyle, when you say 'I do at time use 3 cameras and use the audio off just one of those cameras. MultiCam Designer is great for switching the audio source if there are any problems. I've found that after using MultiCam, the new video is automatically place in the timeline and I'm able to adjust the duration of the edit OR place an effect with out any freeze framing issues except where the original source video was at an end!' do you use 'overlap' transitions, and not 'cross' in the Full Editor after coming out of Multicam Designer? PD14 Ultimate
Win 10 64bit, Intel Core i5 - 2400, 16Gb RAM, Nvidia Geforce GT 430, 240Gb SSD
jcardana
Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline
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Quote: When I set it to overlap I get a smooth transition and like you I have found it shortens the length of the video and therefore throws out the synchronisation with the audio.


Quote: In answer to 'is there definitely enough moving picture available at the point where you are making a transition? ' I think so, I dont understand why not. If I change to an overlap it works smoothly, no freezing, but then as I mentioned earlier it shortens the video and it is no longer synchronised with the audio.


It's my experience that when you have two 10 second videos, transitioning with a cross, you WILL have the videos stop/start in the middle of the transition. That's the nature of Cross. With the Overlap, the second video starts "moving" at the start of the transition and the first video stops at the end.

You can't really remedy the problem of the video "shortening". This is where proper planning coms into play. I use markers to set where I want the transition to start and stop (in sync with music). When I place the first video I make it end at the second marker. I then hold the Alt key while I drag the second video on top of the first, so that it starts at the first marker. I also have my preferences default setting to Overlap. I get a perfect, syncronized transition.



Hope this helps.

Joe

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 27. 2016 23:29

CyberPowerPC | Win7HP-64 | AMD FX-8320 3.5 Ghz | 8GB Mem | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB | WEI 5.9


My Video Editing Computer
| My DirectX Diagnostics


PowerDirector 15.0.2820.0 | PhotoDirector 7.0.7504.0 | AudioDirector 6.0.5902.0 | ColorDirector 4.0.4627.0 | Power2Go 9.0.2602.0


Sutter Hill SDA Church
| Anadrac_Organ_Works | My_Youtube_Channel
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
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Hi all!

Maybe this one could be put in the "suggestions For PD15" bag, do something about fixing the "cross" transitions so we don't get the freeze at the beginning and end of a transition. I should note though, the problem is not universal, it only seems to affect fades, wipes, threshold and a few others. Still, it's something Cyberlink needs to work on.

Cheers!

Neil.
JohntheAussie [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Australia, SA Joined: Jun 02, 2011 20:17 Messages: 23 Offline
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Hi Joe,

Reply to 'It's my experience that when you have two 10 second videos, transitioning with a cross, you WILL have the videos stop/start in the middle of the transition. That's the nature of Cross. '
Yes that seems to be the way it is, at least in PowerDirector.

Reply to 'When I place the first video I make it end at the second marker. I then hold the Alt key while I drag the second video on top of the first, so that it starts at the first marker. I also have my preferences default setting to Overlap. I get a perfect, syncronized transition.'
I tried something like this, but did not work for me. What I did was set my prefereces default to Overlap. Then I grabbed some previously edited video which I had done with Multicam and then put transitions in with the full editor, I deleted some of these transitions, chose a point where I would put a new transition, then dragged the second video section partly over the first while using the Alt key. Then played it back - not synchronised.

My projects are drama/musicals and I do not use the beats markers. During the drama parts I use straight cuts as it comes from Multicam, and during the Music parts I use Fade Transitions.

Hi Neil,

Regarding 'Maybe this one could be put in the "suggestions For PD15" bag, do something about fixing the "cross" transitions so we don't get the freeze at the beginning and end of a transition. I should note though, the problem is not universal, it only seems to affect fades, wipes, threshold and a few others. Still, it's something Cyberlink needs to work on. '
Sounds like a very good idea, I would be all for that. I will add something to that thread.

PS. I have added it to that thread. I have used similar wording to what you said above, and I hope you don't mind. Thanks for that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 29. 2016 05:49

PD14 Ultimate
Win 10 64bit, Intel Core i5 - 2400, 16Gb RAM, Nvidia Geforce GT 430, 240Gb SSD
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
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Hi, John!

My first "port of call" was the "suggestions for PD15" thread, and I note you've made a comment there, you've beaten me to it! The transitions issue really needs a closer look. Cyberlink has added the facility of applying the transitions in a "crossfade" behaviour, as well as the usual overlap. All well and good, exept for the freezing at the beginning and end of the transition, and, if you set the transitions to automatically go to "cross" in preferences, the audio component "goes missing" and has to be added separately. This is NOT innovation, this is DESIGN FAULT! It needs fixing urgently!

Cheers!

Neil.
Kyle 40
Contributor Location: Cumbria Joined: Sep 06, 2013 14:14 Messages: 467 Offline
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Hi John, I think you are going to have to bite bullet and decide ( for the moment at least !) how many fade transitions you really need, then sit back and adjust each one to suite you. At the moment I'm just producing short form videos had enough of the 30 -40 min films for now.

Don't forget to adjust the Fade template and save it in your favorites for use latter on.

Personaly I find that a 1 size tempalte dosen't fit all as some clips you may require a very long transition as aposed to a very short transition. AS in life, there are than one more way to perform an edit. I just don't like the fully automate side of things, just the way I've been trained I suppose but the Control Z is a fantastic tool as opposed to bits of sticky tapeinnocent

What ever you do keep editing.

Cheers I just want to edit and make pictures, walk my dog and go fishing.
jcardana
Senior Contributor Location: USA-NM Joined: Aug 04, 2014 10:11 Messages: 650 Offline
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Quote: My projects are drama/musicals and I do not use the beats markers.
I don't use Beat Markers either. They never line up right with the actual beat. I have modified my Hotkeys so Shift+M adds a normal Timeline Marker. I just add markers where I want my transitions to start and stop.

You probably already know, But, just in case... To change a transition, you drag the new transition onto the one to be replaced. You don't have to remove the old one first, as you know, it throws off the timing.

I still have issues when I want to change the start and/or stop of a transition. CyberPowerPC | Win7HP-64 | AMD FX-8320 3.5 Ghz | 8GB Mem | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB | WEI 5.9


My Video Editing Computer
| My DirectX Diagnostics


PowerDirector 15.0.2820.0 | PhotoDirector 7.0.7504.0 | AudioDirector 6.0.5902.0 | ColorDirector 4.0.4627.0 | Power2Go 9.0.2602.0


Sutter Hill SDA Church
| Anadrac_Organ_Works | My_Youtube_Channel
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
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Hi everybody!

For me, I have my transitions preset to 5 seconds. I had(in Preferences) set the transitions to insert as "cross", as opposed to "overlap", but, to my dismay, I found that I had to manually insert the audio component of each transition..... not a good thing when you're trying to cut down the amount of work required in editing a video. I had to reset the transition behaviour back to "overlap" in preferences to get the automatic insertion of the audio component of the transition..... so much for cutting down the work-load!

This is one that I definitely class as a "design fault". Whether overlap or cross, transitions should insert COMPLETE with the audio component! They should NOT need to be inserted separately!

Cheers!

Neil.
OldNewb [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Dec 16, 2020 12:11 Messages: 1 Offline
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Looking for something else and noticed this thread. I'm new, so it surprised me this has been going on for so long without being addressed.

Cyberlink, if you actually pay attention to these forums, this is STILL a problem. The cross-fade stops the video cold then starts the next video cold fading up, fading the two still frames into each other instead of truly cross-fading two video streams. It would be nice to fix that coding to actually take a few extra frames of the previous clip and fade them into a few extra frames of the new clip to do your cross fades. That's how it's expected to happen, and it is one of my pet peeves about the software, as I use cross-fades all the time.

In addition, changing the fade to cross-fade, changing the time and then clicking 'Apply to all' does not apply the cross-fade selection, only the new time. Wherever possible, all the fades should be changed to cross as well.
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