Hi, again!

Something I should've mentioned but almost forgot, a side-benefit of capturing in DVD-LP capture profile is the smaller file sizes that won't take up as much space on your hard-drive. Yep, that's just about it!

Cheers!

Neil.

You could also try windows movie maker to capture depending on the capture device.

Quote: The tip, of course, is, whenever you're capturing such content as from a VHS or Beta VCR, or from any analogue camera tape, like Video-8 or Hi-8, capture the content using the DVD-LP profile at all times. This will ensure you don't get those "horizontal line" effects

That's a very poor tip. Isolate the real issue you have or use a different capture software. No one should be capturing old content which they may have a once in a lifetime chance to capture and preserve with DVD-LP settings for any VHS, HI8 tape systems. You can see the frame size and bitrate of that capture setting in the attached pic from PD8 for NTSC, no better for PAL. The MediaInfo of such a capture is also attached, it is what CL PD8 says it is and that by any current standard is terrible.

Jeff

Gee, Jeff! you're a bit harsh, there.

I was looking at those who've recently bought Power Director and have a stack of old tapes that they've waited a long time to convert to DVD, and have only just now had the where-with-all to do so. The end of your comment about the quality of the image, ".....and that by any current standard is terrible". tends to sell the analogue sytem a bit short. The old analogue stuff can, and will, with a bit of "tweaking", scrub up quite okay, especially when seen on LED screens. The electronics shops continue to market capture cards for just such a purpose as conversion of tape to disc and there are those out there who've been waiting for their opportunity to do exactly that. The software that comes with them is almost always a cut-down version of Power Director. I don't believe they expect their DVD copies to look as sharp as what the new digital cameras are capable of producing, but the software and hardware compinations being sold are capable of some surprising results all the same. My tip was intended to avoid seeing those "lines"(looking something like analogue TV scan lines) appearing on the screen. Capturing in both PD8 and PD14 at DVD-SP profile made those "lines" appear, but when I tried a new "capture" at DVD-LP profile, I got my desired result, and was able to produce a file that I could readily edit, after some tweaking of the contrast and brightness and a bit of video denoise in the fix/enhance module. The final produce came up looking quite good.

Cheers!

Neil.

Quote: The end of your comment about the quality of the image, ".....and that by any current standard is terrible". tends to sell the analogue sytem a bit short.

Not at all, what sells the analogue system a bit short is your tip at capturing it at DVD-LP settings, namely a 352x240 frame and 1750Kbps bitrate for NTSC or similar PAL offerings. The analogue video stream is much more capable than that, 4-5 times that resolution easily, so as I had said, don't settle for DVD-LP capture settings as a resolution to a capture issue.

My last comment on this thread as I don't want to see another thread blog, I simply wanted some facts presented in the thread so those in the future struggling with capture wouldn't see this tip and latch on. Their years gone by analogue video is much more important to capture at a respectable resolution to give the capability justice rather than a DVD-LP setting capture and total injustice. If the user doing the capture does not have the wherewithal to resolve the issues, they should maybe seek some reliable services to aid or assist in capturing those cherished moments on tapes for digital preservation. A tip to use DVD-LP is simply not one of those.

Jeff

Hi, Jeff!

I think you may have missed my point ast to why I selected DVD-LP as the capture profile. After a bit of experimentation, I tried DVD-SP in botyh PD8and PD14, I noticed a queer effect on the captured video, what looked to be like scan-lines(in older analogue TVs). I was not happy with that result so I dumped the resultant captures without using them. Resetting my PD8 capture profile back to DVD-LP cured that problem, The resultant capture appeared without those strange-looking line effects, and so I proceeded to edit the video, after applying some "tweaking" of the contrast, a little tweaking of brightness, then adding a touch of the video denoise. The resultant video scrubbed up very well indeed after rendering in DVD-SP. There were two "clips" I worked on for a friend, one of which was a tourist island resort's promotional video, the other was my friend's "21st X 2" Birthday(read as: 42nd birthday ha-ha). The friend works at a local branch of the Newcastle Permanent Building Society(that's the equivalent of a "Savings & Loan" society in Britain, or, possibly, the USA). When I authored the tourist island video(which I converted to 16:9 aspect ratio from its origial 4:3), I played the disc on my DVD player.... Beautiful to watch! I did the Birthday vid in PD8 capture(DVD-LP) but edited in a third-party editing software. I did the tourist video in Power Director, PD14 for capture(DVD-LP) and edit, the edit was little more than putting a colour board at the beginning and end, cutting away the excess lead-in and putting a fade transition at the beginning and end of the video. The authoring to disc was done in PD8, so that I could author(burn) at DVD-SP, which is not available for 16:9 content in PD14. There you have it, Jeff.

Cheers!

Neil.

Vhs is said to have a resolution of 240 horizontal lines and 480 vertical lines of resolution in the SP mode. Hi8 and S-vhs has about 400 lines. DV tape can capture over 500 lines. See the attached file captured and produced to mpeg-2 in PS 12 years ago. The Horizontal resolution is between 500 and 600 lines. See it in full screen with vlc. Very few analog crt TV can display this 500+ lines of resolution 12 years ago. This sony also has composite and s-vhs output for analog capture cards.

I believe that possibly Jeff and others might have had a DV camcorder with equal or better resolution than this one and that is why DVD-LP capture may not be desired here. It would be acceptable for old vhs tapes recorded in the EP mode.

Hi, Tomasc!

That's partly what I was trying to get at in relation to older VHS content. Just as an aside, in analogue TV, PAL's nominal field was 625 lines while NTSC's field(for "field" read, on-screen image) was 525 lines. The image would scan at 25 frames per second(PAL)or 24 fps(NTSC) and would scan odd lines first, then even lines. Each frame was built up in this fashion, 1-3-5-7-9-..... 625(or 525) then 2-4-6-8-10-.....624(or 524) for an individual frame, repeated 24 more times in one second for PAL or repeated 23 more times for NTSC. That aside, the older VHS content(tape playing at its normal speed) is best captured at DVD-LP. I found this by experimentation after attempting capture at DVD-SP setting, I noticed what looked like "scan-lines" in the captured clip. I tried DVD-SP in both PD14 and in PD8 and got the same unwanted effect. Resetting the capture profile in PD8 back to DVD-LP, I got the clean(as clean as I could get) image, without those "scan-lines", so I reset the capture profile to DVD-LP in PD14 when I used that to capture the content from another tape I was transferring to DVD for a friend, again I got the desired quality without those ugly "scan-lines". Upon finishing the captures, I "processed" them for later editing, or at least the PD8 capture was edited later(video of a private birthday party), the PD14-captured clip(a tourist island resort's promotional video) was processed(by processing, I mean, through fix/enhance, the contrast & brightness was tweaked, video denoise was applied, then the aspect ratio was converted via CLPV). The birthday clip was edited in a third-party software but brought back to PD8 for authoring. When I played the discs I'd made, they were stunning, that old content really scrubbed up well! This is what I was trying to do, and why I offered the tip. The tip was intended not for those who were using DV-format cameras, with those you would of course gravitate to the higher quality capture profile, I was aiming the tip to those who were looking to save their old VHS/Beta/Video-8/Hi-8 content and reserve same on DVD. Another aside here and I noted that if you dubbed Video-8 or Hi-8 content to VHS or Beta, you could use the resultant VHS or Beta tape as your "master" to capture into MPEG2. However, if you dub VHS(or even VHS-C) to VHS or Beta to Beta, or even from one to the other(VHS to Beta or vice-versa), the one-generation-removed tape will be "rubbish" for capturing to MPEG-2.

Those are just a couple of my experiences in dealing with video content from old tape-based formats.

Cheers!

Neil.

Neil, you're confused just like most of'em.

there wasn't any frames per second in boob tube days. NTSC 60Hz -> 60 fields per second.

no such animal existed -> NTSC 24Hz ???

now the acronyms are blurred.

FPS translates to Frames Per Second, Fields Per Second, First Person Shooter, Feet Per Second...



look at my signature -> Yashica LD-6 Super 8mm Movie Camera took

18 frames per second, 24 frames per second and 36 frames per second.



however, i agree with Jeff. memories are too precious.

all my children -> Beta, Super Beta, VHS, S-Vhs, 8mm, Hi8, Di8 = SD 720x480

very reason i bought PD8 Ultra.

i wouldn't lower the resolution to 320x240...



happy happy joy joy

PepsiMan

'garbage in garbage out' 'no bridge too far'

Yashica Electro 8 LD-6 Super 8mm
Asrock TaiChi X470, AMD R7 2700X, W7P 64, MSI GTX1060 6GB, Corsair 16GB/RAM
Dell XPS L702X i7-2860QM, W7P / W10P 64, Intel HD3000/nVidia GT 550M 1GB, Micron 16GB/RAM
Samsung Galaxy Note3/NX1

Hello Pepsiman!

Sorry, I prefer generic branded cola myself(ha-ha). I was just trying, as best as I could, to explain a method of getting that valuable content off the old VHS(or other format) tapes before they "croak". It's clear my experiences are at odds with yours and Jeff's(JL_JL). As I've said already(a few times now), if I try to capture from VHS using DVD-SP profile, I get an unwanted effect on the video of what appear to be "scan-lines", and though admittedly I haven't tried DVD-HQ profile for the capture, I would expect that same unwanted effect would manifest itself in the resultant "capture". It's by a bit of experimentation that I came across my desired result from using DVD-LP, where I DON'T get that unwanted effect on my video captures. Just to settle the argument, next time I do a VHS capture I'll do it using DVD-HQ, take a frame snapshot and post it here so you can see what I'm talking about.

As for not having "frames per second" in the boob tube days, of course they existed! Each scanned field represented one frame! in the vastly superior PAL colour system, a "field" consisted of 625 lines(nominal) scanned twice per each frame. In each frame, lines 1, 3, 5, and so on to line 625 would be scanned first, then lines 2, 4, 6, 8 and so on, to line 624 would be scanned, these two scans, first the odd, then the even, would occur in 1/25th of a second, thus giving the rate of 25 frames per second, in keeping with the frame rate for film. The number of lines and the frame rate were designed for countries that used the PAL system where their poser supply was fed at 240-250 volts/50 Hz, that included several Euro countries(that opted for PAL) Britain, Australia and New Zealand. The countries that went with the woefully inferior French SECAM system also used 240-250 volts/50 Hz so when those countries finally abandoned the SECAM system, PAL would just slot neatly into place. NTSC was built for a 117 volt/60 Hz power system so the frame rate would be slightly slower. 24 fps was probably chosen as it was 2-fifths of 60 so it neatly divided into the 60 Hz line frequency of the US power system. Why was PAL superior? Because the method had conquered the problems of "phase-shift" which caused the image on screen to go "negative"(red for green, black for white, brown for blue and so on). In the SECAM system, this happened when they switched cameras. it got so bad that French TV stations had to equip themselves with PAL-system cameras, VTRs, Telecine and other gear, then transcode the signal to SECAM at the final stage, the transmitter. That's why SECAM is such a woefully-bad, diabolical system. It was junk even when it was new!

Just wondering, noting where you live, if you ride the rails home, and you get home late at night, I guess that would put you on the "Last Train To Clarkesville"!... Sorry, just Monkee-ing around(not intending malice, you've probably heard this before in any case).

Cheers!

Neil.

Quote:
Just wondering, noting where you live, if you ride the rails home, and you get home late at night, I guess that would put you on the "Last Train To Clarkesville"!... Sorry, just Monkee-ing around(not intending malice, you've probably heard this before in any case)....

sorry, you can't ride it. it is permanently parked at Commerce St & S 10th St. sightseeing is free.

Quote: ...

As for not having "frames per second" in the boob tube days, of course they existed!

i'm also from neighboring states of Missouri, show me state.

so show me, which analog video recorders had this magical NTSC 24Hz recording???

Quote: ... (though initially I thought that option was unavailable...

Quote: ... next time I do a VHS capture I'll do it using DVD-HQ, take a frame snapshot and post it here so you can see

what I'm talking about...

sorry again, been there and done that. -> http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/42029.page#216713



Cheers!

PepsiMan

'garbage in garbage out' 'no bridge too far'

Yashica Electro 8 LD-6 Super 8mm
Asrock TaiChi X470, AMD R7 2700X, W7P 64, MSI GTX1060 6GB, Corsair 16GB/RAM
Dell XPS L702X i7-2860QM, W7P / W10P 64, Intel HD3000/nVidia GT 550M 1GB, Micron 16GB/RAM
Samsung Galaxy Note3/NX1

Hello, Pepsiman!

I'll knock a few of these over, piece by piece:

1) "sorry, you can't ride it. it is permanently parked at Commerce St & S 10th St. sightseeing is free." - I was having a little joke there(re: "Last Train To Clarkesville", which was the first hit record for The Monkees, no offence was intended).

2) "so show me, which analog video recorders had this magical NTSC 24Hz recording???" I was not referring to recording, I was referring to the power supply system, which is 117 volts at 60 hz, perhaps I guessed wrong at the number of "frames per second"

3) "sorry again, been there and done that" I may yet do this, to see for myself what DVD-HQ capture will do(I half-expect to prove myself correct, based on already trying DVD-SP capture). I went for DVD-LP capture because I saw for myself that I would get a reasonble quality "lift" from the tapes, which could later be "spruced up" using fix/enhance tools and the CLPV system, so I'll continue to use DVD-LP for VHS capture(or from any other tape-based system except for DV tapes....a friend of mine has a couple of those type of cameras, DVD-SP will be used for them).

That's it then. Just to be clear, I do have a few digital video cameras, two of which save to SD cards as MPEG2, the third gives me the option of either MP4 or AVCHD, I chose MP4, but, for the "capturing" of content from these cameras, no "capture card" is required. I either hook the cameras up to my computer and they behave like external hard-drives, or I extract the SD cards and insert those into a card reader, either way I copy the content to my internal hard-drive. For old VHS stuff I usually do this for friends(I've done several of my own tapes a few times over). I don't perform this service commercially(for any fee) I just do it for friends or family. I think it's safe to end this subject(thread) at this point.

Cheers!

Neil.

Quote:
1) "sorry, you can't ride it. it is permanently parked at Commerce St & S 10th St. sightseeing is free." - I was having a little joke there(re: "Last Train To Clarkesville", which was the first hit record for The Monkees, no offence was intended).

Neil, it's all good.

really that train, the Monkees' song, is permanently parked at the downtown Commerce & S 10th St.



Cheers.

PepsiMan

'garbage in garbage out' 'no bridge too far'

Yashica Electro 8 LD-6 Super 8mm
Asrock TaiChi X470, AMD R7 2700X, W7P 64, MSI GTX1060 6GB, Corsair 16GB/RAM
Dell XPS L702X i7-2860QM, W7P / W10P 64, Intel HD3000/nVidia GT 550M 1GB, Micron 16GB/RAM
Samsung Galaxy Note3/NX1

Hi, PepsiMan!

Yep, I figured that train(and the loco that pulled it, most likely diesel) would be a museum piece by now, and here's the scary bit... it's 50 years this year since that record was issued on the Colgems label(US market) and RCA everywhere else. It might make a good subject for a video, you could put the song on the soundtrack, though not for public consumption, of course, unless you cleared it with Bertelsmann Music Group(who own the mechanical copyright[recording]) and BMI, who administer the publishing rights on behalf of Screen Gems Music Inc., even then, YouTube would "flag" it and give you some grief over the song's use.

Cheers!

Neil.