To my knowledge, SVRT not functional on any 2K..4K clips, not even clips rendered in PD.

Maybe PD14 will support as they have added some new SVRT functionality, PD14 FAQ

Jeff

JL_JL,

Did not know the SVRT did not work on 4K . That sucks. Has that been confirmed before ?

Anyway, the clip I posted is just a 1080p clip, and SVRT does not work with it either. I tried to create a manual profile, but did not succeed.

Thanks for the pointer to the PD14 FAQ.

Also, the Note 4 encodes in H.264, not H.265 . MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

The server is really slow. It took several minutes to download your first clip. Mediainfo show that the framerate is variable and that is why svrt doesn't work. The 4k video has only cpu rendering and not gpu encode or svrt available as I recall for PD13. Someone can correct me if this is wrong...

Quote: The server is really slow. It took several minutes to download your first clip. Mediainfo show that the framerate is variable and that is why svrt doesn't work.

Variable frame rate ?

It is a fixed rate 60 fps video. Well, 59.57 .

I will download mediainfo. MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

Quote: JL_JL,

Did not know the SVRT did not work on 4K . That sucks. Has that been confirmed before ?

My error, I was going off testing of a previous release, 3130 does appear to support some 2k..4k SVRT.

Jeff

Quote:

Quote: The server is really slow. It took several minutes to download your first clip. Mediainfo show that the framerate is variable and that is why svrt doesn't work.

Variable frame rate ?

It is a fixed rate 60 fps video. Well, 59.57 .

I will download mediainfo.

Looks like you are right, the Galaxy Note 4 is generating files with variable frame rate. I have never seen that before, didn't know that was possible. Too bad SVRT can't work with that. MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

Here is the mediainfo on the first clip. The frame rate according to mediainfo is variable. Others have had problems using svrt with cell phone videos including me. Should the frame rate be 59.94 for svrt to work. I think that Jeff can answer all the questions here...

Quote:

Quote: JL_JL,

Did not know the SVRT did not work on 4K . That sucks. Has that been confirmed before ?

My error, I was going off testing of a previous release, 3130 does appear to support some 2k..4k SVRT.

Jeff

Where did you get the input file for this test ?

I am running build 3130 . I just tried a file I had just rendered in 4K with PD13 .

Even then, the SVRT did not work on it !

And this one is constant frame rate & bit rate. MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

FYI, here is the 4K uhd file from the note 4 .I have tried to rerender it in PD13 build 3130 in UHD, using various profiles including XAVC S. None of the output files seem to work with SVRT either.

Edit : and since we are talking about 4K, here is a clip from my new Sony FDR-AX33 UHD camcorder, which also doesn't work with SVRT. MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

I don't think SVRT will work on the sample file "note 4 uhd 4k.mp4" as the Frame Rate mode is Variable and truly variable, MediaInfo reports 25.5 - 30.0fps. The second reason it won't work for others to test, it's too short for SVRT to work. However, if I put several of the "note 4 uhd 4k.mp4" in the timeline and produce to PD13 MPEG-4 4K 3840x2160/30p (50Mbps) you can see that SVRT of this PD rendered clip is active and it does use SVRT technique during encode.

Attached pic shows your original "note 4 uhd 4k.mp4" clip as well as the specs for PD13 created file that does work with SVRT.

For the Sony clip, I see the same feature that I showed here with different footage, http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/40642.page#209894 Basically depending where the clip is on the timeline and some other factors, SVRT appears that's it's active but in fact the encode process uses the CPU not SVRT as PD13 indicates. No clue why this behaviour, would appear to be a unintended SVRT coding bug to me.

Jeff

Quote: I don't think SVRT will work on the sample file "note 4 uhd 4k.mp4" as the Frame Rate mode is Variable and truly variable, MediaInfo reports 25.5 - 30.0fps. The second reason it won't work for others to test, it's too short for SVRT to work. However, if I put several of the "note 4 uhd 4k.mp4" in the timeline and produce to PD13 MPEG-4 4K 3840x2160/30p (50Mbps) you can see that SVRT of this PD rendered clip is active and it does use SVRT technique during encode.

OK. Only reason the clip is so short was that the server was so slow today, I tried to keep the file small.

I have the same problem with larger clips as well - even a 6GB 10 minute 4K clip...

I tried exactly what you stated with the short clip, but I simply cannot reproduce your result. There must be something different between you are doing. Maybe you are using software encode for the first rendering ? I was using hardware encode.

I just tried software encode - indeed, the SVRT works on the output of that. But it does not work on a hardware encode from my GTX 750 Ti .

The software 4K re-encode is much, much slower, so it is really a shame that one cannot use the hardware encode for it.

On my machine, the GTX 750 Ti can encode 4K/30p MP4 at about 2x.

By comparison, the software encoder encodes at less than 0.5x...

Of course, no separate re-encode should be necessary - it really defeats the point of SVRT.

My main use for SVRT is to clip footage and throw away parts of files that aren't needed losslessly, to free hard drive space.

The re-encodes aren't lossless, unfortunately.

For the Sony clip, I see the same feature that I showed here with different footage, http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/40642.page#209894 Basically depending where the clip is on the timeline and some other factors, SVRT appears that's it's active but in fact the encode process uses the CPU not SVRT as PD13 indicates. No clue why this behaviour, would appear to be a unintended SVRT coding bug to me.

I will check out this thread, does not sound too promising. Let's hope PD14 will fix those bugs.

So far, I have not been able to use SVRT on my larger clips from the Sony. PD14 never shows that SVRT is active.

"Intelligent SVRT" fails on the clip I attached, and all the other 4K Sony clips.

It appears the re-encode is necessary there too. MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

Hi Julien Pierre -

Just to confirm what Jeff wrote... "However, if I put several of the "note 4 uhd 4k.mp4" in the timeline and produce to PD13 MPEG-4 4K 3840x2160/30p (50Mbps) you can see that SVRT of this PD rendered clip is active and it does use SVRT technique during encode."

Here, the same thing applies to your original Sony FDR AX-33 clip. If I insert only one clip in the timeline - No SVRT available. If I insert 12 of them - SVRT is active. (screen shot attached)

Cheers - Tony
Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
Full linked Tutorial Catalog PDtoots happily supports fellow PowerDirector users!

Tony,

Quote: Hi Julien Pierre -

Just to confirm what Jeff wrote... "However, if I put several of the "note 4 uhd 4k.mp4" in the timeline and produce to PD13 MPEG-4 4K 3840x2160/30p (50Mbps) you can see that SVRT of this PD rendered clip is active and it does use SVRT technique during encode."

Here, the same thing applies to your original Sony FDR AX-33 clip. If I insert only one clip in the timeline - No SVRT available. If I insert 12 of them - SVRT is active. (screen shot attached)

Cheers - Tony

Warning, long post.

1) Thanks for trying that. Indeed, I see the same thing here, if I insert two or more clips - the SVRT claims to be enabled for 100% of the project, and PDR13 allowed me to save the custom SVRT profile for the FDR-AX33.

However, when I went to actually render it, it took 24 seconds, which is insane for a project that was a total of 8 seconds and two clips of 31,719 KB, even in 4K. It's clear that SVRT was not actually in use, even though PowerDirector claimed to have used it - and the "SVRT 3" was displayed throughout the rendering. Ie. this is a lossy full re-encode, not SVRT.

2) If I delete the second clip on the timeline, then SVRT does not work, even when selecting that same profile manually.

3) The output of that lossy rendering that took 24 seconds in step 1) is a clip that is 63,184 KB .

If I create a new project in PD13, and put that one clip on the timeline, PDR13 allows intelligent SVRT to work.

And re-rendering that clip takes only one second, not 24 seconds like in step 1) ! So, this second rendering is actually SVRT - the first one was not.

4) I have repeated this test with larger clips - a 1GB clip and a 6GB clip. The problem is still exactly the same when there is a single clip on the time line, even if it's a very large one.

Using a 2:21min 962,432KB clip, with a single instance on the timeline, PDR13 does not allow SVRT to be enabled.

5) With two instances of that clip, PDR13 allows SVRT to be enabled. Intelligent SVRT says it's 100%. But when I tried to render, it's clearly using the CPU - all 8 cores peaked on my FX-8350 OC'ed at 4.6 GHz. As I'm typing this, it's already taken 4 minutes, and it's less than half way through.

Edit: it completed in 11 minutes.

If it was really SVRT, it would have been done in less than 30 seconds. The source clip is in the disk cache at this point (32GB RAM), and the target drive is an SSD in RAID 0 which can write at about 800MB/s . Ie. the disk I/O should take under 3 seconds.

6) I tried SVRT on the clip that took 11 minutes to render in step 5).

It is a 1936,911KB file. PDR13 allowed SVRT to be enabled, and rendered it in 4K in 14 seconds.

7) I also tried shortening the second instance of the second clip on the timeline. If I make it very short, PDR13 also fails to enable SVRT for the project. I haven't exactly found what the threshold causes it to complain.

So, there are 2 bugs :

1) "Intelligent" SVRT fails completely with a single clip from the FDR-AX33 . One is forced to use the software or hardware encoder unless there are at least two clips.

2) With two clips on the timeline, PDR13 claims to enable SVRT, but actually does a software rendering !

IMO, this is a far worse bug - since SVRT is supposed to be a lossless rendering process, and PDR13 is misleading about that.

The sum of these two bugs means I cannot use SVRT on the 4K clips from my new FDR-AX33 in PDR13.

That is a pretty major issue which will make it impossible for me to cut unnecessary footage. At least with my 8 year old Canon HG21 HD camcorder that recorded on FAT, it split the recording in files of 2GB max. So even if SVRT did not work, I would never waste too much space. But with this camcorder, the files are limited to the card size. I could be recording myself at home at the piano or harpsichord for hours, end up with a single 100GB file from which I want to save 4GB - the "best" take, whatever it is .

There is no way I will be able to archive 100GB of uninteresting footage per recording session.
So, lack of SVRT is a major showstopper for me.

Let's hope PDR14 fixes these two bugs. I will try also with previous versions since I have PDR 10/11/12 also installed. I don't think any of them supports the XAVC S bit rate from the FDR-AX33, though.

Right now, I can only record in 60 Mbps as I don't have a UHS-1 U3 card. I have many UHS-1 U1 card, which should be plenty fast enough for XAVC S 100 Mbps, which is only 12.5MB/s. All my UHS-1 cards have a write speed that's at least 3x that. But Sony is enforcing a hardware U3 flag on the card. This is nothing less than a scam to force users to buy new cards. I'm upset about that as it seems like a wholly unnecessary new expense, and one that was not planned. I won't order such a card until I'm done evaluating the FDR-AX33 - I have 30 days to return it to Fry's. Alternative would be the Panasonic models, or the FDR-AX100, possibly, though I believe it will enforce U3 cards too. Or perhaps waiting for a true 4K/60p consumer camcorder altogether. MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

Quote:
So, there are 2 bugs in PDR13 :

1) "Intelligent" SVRT fails completely with a single clip from the FDR-AX33 . One is forced to use the software or hardware encoder unless there are at least two clips.

2) With two clips on the timeline, PDR13 claims to enable SVRT, but actually does a software rendering !

IMO, this is a far worse bug - since SVRT is supposed to be a lossless rendering process, and PDR13 is misleading about that.

The sum of these two bugs means I cannot use SVRT on the 4K clips from my new FDR-AX33 in PDR13.

...

Let's hope PDR14 fixes these two bugs. I will try also with previous versions since I have PDR 10/11/12 also installed. I don't think any of them supports the XAVC S bit rate from the FDR-AX33, though.

Tried it, and SVRT actually seems to work in PD12 on the FDR-AX33 4K footage. It does not work in PD10 or PD11 - those don't allow SVRT to be enabled. PDR10 doesn't support 4K rendering officially, so this is not too surprising.

I attached a pic of the settings of the profile for the FDR-AX33 created by intelligent SVRT in PD12. I tried to create an identical manual profile in PDR13, but it does not work - SVRT is not enabled. Looks like this may be because the bit rate is 54,693,668 , but one can only enter a value in kbps - ie. ending in 000 - in the PDR13 UI.

Anyway, I have a 16min23sec 6,586,213 KB source file that rendered in 66 seconds to a 6,387,909 KB target file, using between 25-40% CPU, in PD12 with SVRT.

This 6GB clip was not in the OS disk cache, so had to be read from the RAID 0 HDD array which is somewhat slow - using 5400rpm disks, 80MB/s each - so 160MB/s read speed - yielding 41 seconds for I/O. A second SVRT re-render with the file in the cache took exactly 41 seconds.

Not really sure where the 200 MB were lost - probably audio CODEC difference.

Yes, indeed - Mediainfo shows the source file audio from the FDR-AX33 was in uncompressed PCM - but the target file audio is in AAC.

So, the SVRT video in PD12 is lossless, but the audio is not.

I only use the camera audio to synchronize with my separate recorder, and never mix it into the final video, so I suppose I can live with that loss for now - the video footage is what I actually care about. Hoping PD14 will allow the PCM audio to be preserved too, not that it's so great.

So, it looks like I have to use PD12 just for the 4K SVRT on the FDR-AX33 clips as part of my workflow ... MSI X99A Raider
Intel i7-5820k @ 4.4 GHz
32GB DDR4 RAM
Gigabyte nVidia GTX 960 4GB
480 GB Patriot Ignite SSD (boot)
2 x 480 GB Sandisk Ultra II SSD (striped)
6 x 1 TB Samsung 860 SSD (striped)

2 x LG 32UD59-B 32" 4K
Asus PB238 23" HD (portrait)

Quote: Tony,
1) Thanks for trying that. Indeed, I see the same thing here, if I insert two or more clips - the SVRT claims to be enabled for 100% of the project, and PDR13 allowed me to save the custom SVRT profile for the FDR-AX33.

In the Preferences/Produce, there is a checkbox to Allow SVRT on single IDR H.264 video. This mean that you svrt will work if you have only one clip on the timeline if checked.

In the past, I remember in the FAQ that you cannot enable svrt if hardware acceleration is enabled in the preferences. It's one or the other but all those older FAQ has been deleted so I don't think they apply to PD13.

Found a post where someone(Xerox) claims that svrt doesn't work on a 6 sec. clip. It needs to be at least 60 sec. for it to work: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/28170.page .

Hope that some of this helps get you going...

Quote:

Quote: Tony,
1) Thanks for trying that. Indeed, I see the same thing here, if I insert two or more clips - the SVRT claims to be enabled for 100% of the project, and PDR13 allowed me to save the custom SVRT profile for the FDR-AX33.

In the Preferences/Produce, there is a checkbox to Allow SVRT on single IDR H.264 video. This mean that you svrt will work if you have only one clip on the timeline if checked.

I already had that preference enabled in PD13, so that doesn't help unfortunately.

In the past, I remember in the FAQ that you cannot enable svrt if hardware acceleration is enabled in the preferences. It's one or the other but all those older FAQ has been deleted so I don't think they apply to PD13.

This is incorrect. Hardware acceleration can be enabled in the preferences and SVRT can still work.

What you can't do is use both SVRT and the hardware encoder at the same time when rendering. There is a check box for that where you can choose betwseen SVRT and the hardware encoder, so it is quite obvious.

Found a post where someone(Xerox) claims that svrt doesn't work on a 6 sec. clip. It needs to be at least 60 sec. for it to work: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/28170.page .

Hope that some of this helps get you going...

As I posted earlier, PowerDirector 13 fails to allow SVRT to be enabled even on a single 16min23sec 6,586,213 KB 4K clip from my Sony FDR-AX33.

If I put two of them together, it allows SVRT to be used, but uses the software encoder, not SVRT - the rendering takes 11 minutes.

PowerDirector 12 works fine with this single clip - it allows SVRT to be used, and renders it in 66 seconds.

This is clearly a bug in PowerDirector 13 - actually, two bugs, as I noted earlier.