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Confused about frame rate to create movie
ozstar [Avatar]
Member Location: Sydney OZ Joined: Apr 21, 2012 20:13 Messages: 125 Offline
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Hi,

I am confused about what frame rate to choose when producing a movie.

I have the timeline area set to 16:9 PAL and I want to produce a 16:9 movie

When choosing Produce I see all these size options. What is the best one to choose?

I have tried avi, mpeg2 and H264 but am now really confused.

I have tried some but get 'you work area is 25 frame rate and this clip is 23.9'.

Please help to get the normal default for 16:9

Thanks

oz
borgus1 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Feb 27, 2013 00:33 Messages: 1318 Offline
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I am not in PAL territory, but suggest that you ignore the warning message.

16:9 is the aspect ratio of your project, not the frame rate. That's a "widescreen" format.
4:3 would be the old standard.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 30. 2014 08:57

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You should choose as final destination BluRay, DVD or another.
If DVD: choice, MPEG2 / DVD HQ 720x576/24P
If BluRay: choice, H264 - AVC / 1920x1080/24P
Have other options see the properties of the original video and select a profile but similar.

Cases has what it takes to convert from one format to another, PAL to NTSC.
24P to 25P or 30P AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate
ozstar [Avatar]
Member Location: Sydney OZ Joined: Apr 21, 2012 20:13 Messages: 125 Offline
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Many thanks guys.

I want to save the video in as good a formata s I can for archive purposes say avi, then I can get it down to mpeg etc for DVD, and web etc.

The confusion was the frame rate. I could not see anywhere in the original avi I captured from my DV camera where it was anything other than 25 as per usual for pal.

I had split the original movie into songs and saved them as avi using Produce on the time line.

It was when I opened another project and brought in these avi clips that I got the 23.9 message. Still not sure where on earth that frame rate was allocated.

So to summerise 'playsound', should I still save to avi as the best then as you say mpeg and h264 for the rest.

When setting up producing there is a drop down option with many option and this is where I go bananas. For a normal PAL 16:9 what one should I choose? I would have thought there was a default without having to choose.

'Borgus' I will try to do a test and ignore but I wonder whether this would effect the final outcome in quality etc.

Many thanks guys for your time.
[Post New]
Consirerando you want to save in the same original format, follow the suggestion Borgus1, ignone the normal notice PD he chooses the best option for editing.
In choosing produce AVI profile similar to the original video quality.
Save clip and check how it behaves.

I do not like to use the AVI format to PD, I think best MPEG4, WMV or MPEG2 HD.

PD12, not working with SVRT to AVI format, then you have to render the video, any profile you choose.

If you post here 10 to 20 seconds of the original video.
We could do tests and suggest more accurately.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 30. 2014 20:46

AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate
stevek
Senior Contributor Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline
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I may have missed it but what you select depends largely on what eventually you want to do with the video Play it on your computer (almost anything) , a DVD then mpg2 is the format that the video will be converted to . You will see the mpg2 files as VOB on the disc.

As for frame rate, the "new, most popular" frame rate is 24 fps (in US standard). This is the frame rate new commercial videos are filemd and burned to. It gives someone a softer video experience. 60 frps is great for action type movies. I have used both and since my videos are usually about familily, I use the 24 fps. I did some drag strip videos and used the 60 fps because I really wanted to capture the sharp action. .
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BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.
stevek
Senior Contributor Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline
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edit removed duplicate

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 30. 2014 18:32

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.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.
jmone
Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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I would suggest a different approach:

Archival Copies: The idea is to keep a version that is as close to the original as possible. You have three options:
1) Pack Project Materials: You can create you project in PD then use the "File --> Pack Project Materials" to create a single folder with a copy of the entire project that you can the archive. The benefit is that it keeps all the original content untouched. The downside is that it can only be opened in PD and that it can be large as it keeps everything even the that don't appear in the timeline.
2) Produce in Original Format: The next option is when you have finished your project go to "Produce --> Intelligent SVRT" and PD should offer a selection that matches the format the imported material was it. This way you can create a copy that has not had any changes to the format, frame size or frame rate. The upside is that you get one small file, but of course you can not go back and undo any edits etc as this is the finalised output
3) Produce in another format: If you want to create a copy in a more universal format, I'd suggest an H.264/AVC profile that matches your existing Frame Size and Rate. The benefit is that you can then use this for most playback needs as well without having to make a version for distribution on PC's, Handheld Devices.

Distribution Copies: When you want to distribute a copy you simply select for format that your end user prefers, eg DVD, BD, or a particular file type. You can keep going back to your Archival Copy to create new distribution copies as needed.

Now when it copies to "quality", in order of things to avoid where possible especially for your Archive Version (for distribution you sometimes have no choice)
1) Never Change the Frame Rate. If you shoot in 25p/50i, then keep it in this frame rate. Pending the technology used to convert from one frame rate to another, the resultant file will either have judder (from pull down patters), interpolation artefacts (from creating frames that did not exist) or blurring (from blending frames).
2) Change Frame Size: To change frame size, PD is going to have to crop, scale and/or interpolate. You will either lose some original details, or PD will have to "make" up some details that was not in the original. Technology has gotten alot better at this and I'm sure it will continue to improve over time with later versions. I'm less worried about this
3) Re/Transcode Material: This is generational loss suffered by all lossy compression schemes, eg change from one format to another (or even just re-encoding) means that PD will decode the video, then re-encode it. I'm less worried again by this as again the technology for this is now pretty good and if you only do it once then you probably will not see a difference.

The think I find odd about your post is the reported frame rate of 23.9 as it is not a standard frame rate - do you have a small sample that you can link to?

Thanks
Nathan

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 30. 2014 19:59

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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FYI - By the way for my old DV-AVI (Pal) material I did keep the original projects but they are now useless as I don't have the SW Package any more and I never went back to want to correct any edits. I have the Produced DV-AVI as a file that I keep as my main archive and a h264 version (same frame rate, resolition, aspect ratio) that I use on the HTPC for consumption. If anyone wants a copy I just drag either version in PD and produce a DVD or BD in the same frame rate, resolution and aspect ratio of the original.... and just live with the black bars on either side. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
ozstar [Avatar]
Member Location: Sydney OZ Joined: Apr 21, 2012 20:13 Messages: 125 Offline
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Wow !! I have printed out the posts and will sit and try and absorb them.

I really do appreciate your time, expertise and suggestions.

I will update as I get results and a flow I will use into the future.

Thanks again,

oz
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